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October 08, 2025

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The Hells Angels Exclusion (or)
Is it ok to exclude “those” people?

In this week’s Systems Change Newsletter…

Invitations and Announcements:
Attention consultants
Consultants and coaches: How can you tell what degree of change your clients are ready for? How can you know if what you're proposing is what the client feels they need vs. what YOU think they need? To help you to better meet clients’ needs (and get more satisfying work!), we are hosting a new webinar just for consultants and coaches. Up your consulting game here…

Attacks on Freedom of Speech: What Nonprofits Need to Know
The U.S. president has directed all federal agencies to investigate, prosecute, and disrupt nonprofit organizations that are working at cross purposes with the administration’s priorities and ideology. This means any of us working for a more just and equitable world. The National Council of Nonprofits is fighting this in every way they can. Find out how this could affect your work at this link…

Catalytic Thinking Exercise:
The Hells Angels Exclusion: Is it ok to exclude “those” people?

Hildy was keynoting a conference, talking about what it takes to step into our power as nonprofits and community changemakers. Focusing on the power of “all of us together,” she talked about the first question in Catalytic Thinking.

Who will be affected by what we are considering?
And what would it take for them to be part of the decision / lead the direction we take?

A foundation CEO was the first person to approach her after her talk.

“There have to be exceptions to including everyone who will be affected,” he told her. “For example, we obviously wouldn’t want to include groups like the Hells Angels.”

Recognizing a gotcha argument, Hildy reminded him, “Well, if you are deciding not to include a group, you are making a decision to consciously EXCLUDE that group. Are you saying there are groups of people it is ok to exclude?” The CEO paused and said, “I guess yes, there are groups we should exclude.”

Hildy then asked him, “What do you think is the worst that could happen if we exclude those folks?” Suddenly his demeanor changed. The cocky smile was gone. His tone turned quiet, almost whispering.

“I guess people join the Hells Angels because they want to belong,” he said. “Maybe it’s about finding a way to include them, that addresses all of our concerns.” (When she told us this story, Hildy shared that it took huge restraint to resist hugging him.)

There are so often groups we think we need to exclude from our conversations and decisions. There are all sorts of circumstances where our natural inclination is to exclude rather than include. Sometimes it is folks we see as “the opposition,” like the person in one of our webinars who asked about excluding the police in discussions around “defunding” and reallocating police resources to more effective solutions for public safety. Sometimes it is folks we see as “the competition.”

The reality is that those groups and individuals will be affected whether you include them or not. Again the question arises, “What is the worst that could happen if you exclude them from your discussions?” The worst is usually about continued lack of conversation and communication, continued alienation and polarization, the inability to find points of agreement. It usually includes what it feels like to be excluded, and how we humans tend to respond when that is the case (which is rarely good). Opposition gets more deeply solidified as we build camps and ramp up a battle mentality.

It is rare that the folks you are seeking to exclude are absolutely opposed to real dialogue, intent on seeing you simply fail. Yes, there are those folks out in the world, and no, there is no point in connecting if there really is no point in connecting. But most people and groups want to find answers. Most people are open to at least exploring the possibility of dialogue.

And that is where the second half of the inclusion question becomes key:

Who will be affected?
And what would it take for them to be part of the decision?

Try this
The first half of the inclusion question is easy – listing everyone who will be touched by the work you are doing or are considering. What takes a bit more thought is that second part of the question, especially with groups you might prefer to leave out.

The desire to exclude those folks usually comes from our fears. We fear they might be disruptive, or that they will disagree with what we are thinking about. With our competition, we fear that they might steal our ideas or take credit or get the funding we might seek. And with the foundation CEO’s red herring example of the Hells Angels, we might fear physical violence!

The question, “What would it take to include them?” leads us to create conditions for success of the conversation and/or gathering. What needs to be in place for that conversation to be the most productive? What needs to be in place for your fears to be assuaged?

What do the people involved (you AND them) need to know?
What do they need to feel?
What do they need to have?
What do they need to be assured of?

And what will it take for them to know / feel / have / be assured of those things?

For the police / defunding example (i.e. people who disagree with you), perhaps both of you need to know that this will be a safe space for exploring together. Perhaps that means having a neutral party convene the conversation. Or perhaps it means having the initial meeting over coffee to explore quietly together before being in a public forum.

For the competition example, perhaps you need to be assured that ideas will be shared from both sides, that everyone will have something at stake. Or that you will explore privately together, to find points where you might work together (again, perhaps meeting over coffee, just the two of you).

And for the Hells Angels (yes, let’s go there), perhaps it is an agreement not to bring weapons!!

When we aim at what we DO want – everyone talking together and deciding together what will benefit the most people in our communities – and we consider the conditions that need to be in place for that result to happen, we are creating a path of possibility. We are finding ways to succeed, rather than rationalizing why we cannot succeed.

That is why the questions of radical inclusion are the very first questions in the Catalytic Thinking framework. Because together is our superpower when it comes to creating a more humane, healthy, joyful world.

Resources to Further Your Practice

  • LISTEN: Our latest podcast episode is a far-ranging conversation with two public health officials who focus every day on the question, “What would it take for folks to be whole and healthy?” An inspiring and informative listen starts here…  
  • READ: This grab bag of ideas for engaging your community will help you reach out to include the people who will be affected by your work. Put a toe in here…
  • WATCH: Have you heard the expression “Two in a room?” The first speaker might suggest something a bit out there. The second speaker legitimizes that thought, and makes it safe for others to follow. This fun 3 minute video is the best example we know of what that looks like in action. Watch here…

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Teach people how to change the systems they find themselves in,
to create a future different from our past -
all by changing the questions they ask.

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